etching damascus with muriatic acid

Muriatic acid is also less potent because it's diluted with water (usually around 31.5 percent HCl) and contains impurities like iron. We use a laser engraver to engrave on the Damascus steel. Any form of agitation not only helps the etch to even out, it also helps the acid work faster by removing oxides from the surface of the steel. I've done several tests, using the same pieces of steel, same amount if vinegar at the same temp, etc, and nothing is working as well as the first batch. If not, dip it in the acetone (see lovely photo) then repeat the previous step until you're happy. Vegas Forge. However by simply etching the look will not be correct for gun barrels, and will be a relatively light contrast. Etching Concrete: The Process. This is a quick guide as to how I etch my damascus steel. The hydrogen peroxide acts as an oxidizer allowing the acid to eat away the copper. Professional Strength 31.45% HCL (Muriatic Acid), excellent for pH reduction in swimming pools or to clean and etch masonry surfaces, excellent for pH reduction in all commercial and residential pools.Find the ACID MURIATIC GAL at Ace. Whats the proper technique for etching Damascus. Use a sprayer or watering container to distribute the acid, scrubbing in as needed. It fumes a lot (toxic) and the fumes will rust everything in your shop. For the Fe, you get some very fine steel wool and dissolve it in the Muriatic until no more will take. The reason it disappeared remained a mystery until just a few years ago. How do I heat-treat my stainless Damascus after purchase? What is the Best 2x72 Grinder if you had the money? Apparently this neutralises the piece as well as helping to set the oxides. It is in a greatly reduced concentration compared to the 30% hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid). on Step 8. When someone feels their ferric chloride batch has "gone bad", you can add a tablespoon or so of muriatic acid and regenerate it. Works great. Muriatic acid will strip the galvanizing off, Ospho, which is phosphoric acid can be used to etch the zinc to get the paint to stick, it is also a 'rust reformer' changing ferric oxide 'rust' to phosphoric oxide, which is stable and can be painted with out worry about latter rusting. Even a single fingerprint will effect your acid etch, so be cautious. Many hand-forged Damascus blades are made out of high carbon steel with small amounts of chromium in the alloy. Before you begin, check the expiration date on your acid of choice to be sure that it's not too old. *Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc, or its affiliates. Damascus Steel the two give much different results. Each time acid is added, it will eat away at the travertine. You can also neutralize muriatic acid with agricultural lime. Damascus Etching. What follows is a step-by-step tutorial on how to acid etch concrete with muriatic acid. NOT ALL DAMASCUS ARE MADE LIVING Damascus is made of many metallic combinations to form one piece. Muriatic acid quickly dissolves efflorescence from concrete surfaces, and it removes other stains as well. You don't need a lot. How do I heat-treat my 1075 or 0-1 Carbon Damascus billet? Add more acid if necessary. It will rust almost immediately if you don't. The only step I did not do was the boil in baking soda. Ferric chloride is not an "acid" per se. this makes Ferris chloride, you need to add hydrogen peroxide to convert to ferric , go slow in an over large container is is an energetic reaction the ferris will be a green color, add peroxide until it turns brown and it is ferric, add distilled water until it etches nicely. "Regular" ferric chloride tion for future etching. wow sounds like fun. RadioShack carries pcb enchant, aka ferric chloride. While high in carbon steel, the blade can easily rust if not cared for. After 5 minutes, rinse your piece of liquor and tie it with the pure rag. On-line through Amazon. Which type of steel you etch will determine the best acid or chemical to use to etch it with. The worst thing about Muriatic acid is storing two gallons of it without eating up every piece of steel in the shop. It is done by submerging the blade in an acid. In other words, it is a mixture of ferric and cupric chlorides that is renewable effectively forever. For this reason, true Damascus steel is called wootz Damascus steel to distinguish it from imitations. Michael, my advise would be to dilute it down subtantially with distilled water. Then etch it to make the pattern visible. Acid etching a concrete floor is typically a 6-step process: Prepare, clean, and degrease concrete. This is how I do it and it works for me. Makes the material look like carbon steel Damascus. This is commonly sold in home improvement stores and pool supply stores in gallon jugs. Mix your Ferric Chloride 1 part to 3 parts of distilled water and put in suitable container. The HCL (hydrochloric acid) is commonly used in a diluted form called Muriatic Acid for PH balancing in pools. I frequently etch damascus with ferric chloride. Using muriatic acid is no joke, and many DIYers believe it to be a . Asiatic Muriatic does not require dilution. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg, https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith. Once the half hour is up, check the etching to make sure you're happy with the result. I have noticed that Muriatic will produce a much shinier surface than Ferric, without a lot of the black that you would expect. The acid etching will need to be done outside or in a well-ventilated area, and you should wear rubber gloves and goggles from here on out. Two popular acids to use are Muriatic acid or feric chloride. Hi. The knife in the photo had 3 ten minute dips. Hang your Damascus piece in the warm acid so that it hangs freely and doesnt touch the sides or bottom of the container. Remember to wear safety goggles and gloves at all times. Ferric chloride is a common acid used for etching Damascus steel. Radio Shack sells it online as PCB Etchant. FORGE, Jan 1, 2014 #4 Icho- Staff Member Likes Received: 154 Trophy Points: 63 Thanks Forge. You can make a reasonable facsimile of ferric by dissolving steel wool in muriatic acid. Mix this stuff 4:1 with distilled water. Muriatic acid is "hydrochloric acid" (HCl) in a less pure and diluted strength for non-technical applications like cleaning bricks. When you have mixed the acid solution you can start acid etching the concrete. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Though there was a demand for Damascus steel, in the 19th century it stopped being made. Adding HCl acid can restore the cutting ability of the FeCl3. With ferric acid, keep grit between 400 and 600. Our passion is crafting knives featuring forged blades in the pursuit of the ultimate high performance cutting tool, what type of ferric acid do you use for Damascus and what strength saw alot of copper etchant is that the right stuff, https://www.radioshack.com/products/radioshack-16oz-pcb-etchant-solution. Be sure to always wear the appropriate protective gear when youre working with acid. How To Acid Etch Metal With Vinegar The Art Of Weapons. This is commonly sold in home improvement stores and pool supply stores in gallon jugs. In both uric acid and ferric chloride, the temperature should be between 70 and 100 degrees Fahrenheit, about room temperature. Wash your piece with alcohol and pat it dry with a clean rag. Muratic acid is really not the stuff to use for etching especially inside your house or workshop. To the iron add 100mL of water and 100mL of 12M hydrochloric acid. If you use muriatic acid, you can bring Damascus up to 1200 grit, or you can leave it 400 grit. I played with the hot vinegar, didnt like it. Don't use a metal container acid can corrode many metals, leading to the possible destruction of the container. Acid reaches well in the cleanest place. It won't hurt glass or plastic, but the fumeswill eat a metal lid. I plan to buy some ferric chloride pretty soon, or go all mad scientist and make some, but I'd like to get a bit of use out of this $1 vinegar lol. ethanknott, Tweet. Hardened and tempered steel etches with much more contrast. It does not contain phosphoric, hydrochloric or muriatic acid, yet works better, safer and faster. Fill a plastic garden watering can halfway with the mixture. and wear gloves, eye protection, and clothing. There are five distinctive patterns from which to choose. Dunk it in the acetone again then allow to dry. Let your piece remain in acids for 10 to 15 minutes. Rinse the floor thoroughly, squeegee away puddles, allow floor to dry. -- Theodore Roosevelthttp://stephensforge.com. Essentially you forge weld 2 contrasting types of steel (I used 15N20 and 75Ni8) then manipulate it to make a pattern. Pretty much unreadable due to very poor English. It looks beautiful, I figured it'd have to be more complicated, You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. Very carefully pour your acid in, being sure not to cause any spills or splashes. Etching of Damascus is done after manufacturing or grinding of the blank to bring out the contrasting steel patterns. The "active ingredient" in ferric chloride solution is hydrochloric acid. What Is ChatGPT? I've since settle on at 4-1 dilution, and overall etching a blade takes 45-60 mins. Earn the Windex deep deep hole so that you can fully fill your Dutch item. 4 years ago The basic process is as follows: After heat treating, bring your Damascus to a 400 to 600 grit finish. etching is completed with chloride with ferric or muriatic acid. The hardware store wasn't going to be very helpful in the middle of the night and I was about to put it all off to the next day when I realized I didn't actually care about how the etching was done . Eliminates the need to use harsh chemicals, provides a safer work enviornment . Each Damascus Steel ring is uniqueno two designs will look exactly alike. Klean-Strip Muriatic Acid can be used to etch concrete, brighten concrete and masonry, or remove excess mortar from bricks. Those rods and shoes represent an unlimited example made of synthetic steel derived from the art combination, a great quality of dedication and, above all, hard work. The difference between steel metals creates those different ways, especially when used again. I do Oh well, looks like another one for the personal collec Thats one of them there corner daggers Is there any difference with polish? 5. Never put acid on the microwave! But in Vegas Forge, they give that and more. It is. Should I dilute ferric chloride for etching? Tungsten, vanadium, and carbon impurities in the metal formed carbon nanotubules and stretched cementite spheroids that gave the blades their pattern and mechanical properties. Complete etches in a well ventilated space and wear gloves, eye protection, and an apron or old clothes. How do I heat-treat 440C/CPM-154 Damascus billet? It is in a greatly reduced concentration compared to the 30% hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid). The press method is the reverse. Go MINIMUM of 3-1 dilution with DISTILLED water only. American Bladesmith Society bladesmiths represent the cutting edge of forged blade performance and design on six continents. Ferric and Muriatic Acids work on Damascus Steels but will give 2 drastically different results. In our last etching video, linked below, we ended up using ferric chloride and then sulfuric acid, which didn't give the best results. Damascus etching is completed with either ferric chloride or muriatic acid. Is it possible to etch Damascus with muriatic acid? By far, the best way too pickle blades is with white vinegar, just be sure and degrease them first. Put the holes on both sides or you'll get a bar with raindrop on one side and random on the other. this works well as a etchant but i have found ferric made this way is not as stable as store bought. Ferric Chloride - 1 Quart - 1000 ML - Copper Etchant Solution - Stainless Steel Etching Cream 4.6 (203) $2499 $22.49 with Subscribe & Save discount FREE delivery Tue, Feb 28 on $25 of items shipped by Amazon Small Business MG Chemicals - 415-4L Ferric Chloride Copper Etchant Solution, 4L Liquid Bottle 4.7 (269) $4835 - $6862 FREE delivery Since you have muriatic acid, its really easy to make ferric chloride. on Introduction. Ferric chloride is one of the most widely used etchants in the field of chemical etching. [woocommerce-reset-password-nonce] => Great sense of humor and good information. Muriatic also contains some other stuff, typically iron, which is already starting to become ferric. Does etching have to be done before temper, or can you etch first and have the pattern survive the process? Put a tablespoon or so of baking powder in a saucepan of water and boil the piece for 10 minutes. Damascus etching is completed with either ferric chloride or muriatic acid. Using a broom, scrub the concrete with the acid solution. No neutralizing step after etching. Blotchiness in an etch is usually the result of oil somewhere in the system, either on the blade or in the etchant. My first round of etching went very well, good contrasting colors and an even etch, but since then my etches have been splotchy with very little contrast. Either is effective. -----------------------------------------------"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. Everyone has a slightly different dilution and technique. Rinsed the inside of the tank thoroughly with water, then sloshed some baking soda and water inside the tank to neutralize any remaining acid, drained and rinsed again. Could have probably pypassed this step: dumped 1/2 gallon of phosphoric in the tank and sloshed it around with the cap shut and stoppers in. Wash thoroughly your piece of liquor and view it with pure oils. Removing this step is notified, even though your tailor seems good because the acid is in the middle of the second and eliminates your design. Pour the mixture into a plastic garden watering can. They dedicate their customers to the unique inspired world patterns around us, for example, raindrops, razor cords, and baskets. It is the readers responsibility to seek out qualified instruction and to research all the health and safety risks involved and take the proper precautions associated with this activity. How do I heat-treat my 1075 or 0-1 Carbon Damascus billet? The blade pattern is nice but no matter how I sand, black oxides keep rubbing off. Etching Damascus - Mike Carter demonstrates how to acid etch Damascus knife blades to reveal the pattern in the steel; What products are often used? hey guys, i used the lovely search function with pretty much no results. This steel had been produced for 11 centuries, and in just about a generation, the means of its manufacture was entirely lost. Etching acids can range from powerful hydrochloric or sulfuric acid to much weaker acids even household vinegar, citrus fruit, or mustard can be used effectively. Do not change before creativity! Do not change before creativity! My favorite supplier of muriatic acid is any place that carries pool supplies. Do yourself a favor and get Ferric Chloride/PCB Archer Etchant from Radio Shack/online. It will corrode everything in sight and do a number on your lungs. Most people use it cold, which is very slow. It is the ideal acid etch alternative. It's expensive, but amazing. Ferric chloride is very popular. Cleaning the concrete surface with Muriatic Acid is how to Etch Concrete. Etching. When someone feels their ferric chloride batch has "gone bad", you can add a tablespoon or so of muriatic acid and regenerate it. Over the years, Damascus1 has produced various products using one of the four hairdressers of the nazel hair. I etch pretty deeply (3-4 soaks at 15-20 minutes, scrubbing oxides off between soaks) then a light buffing with pink scratchless rouge to bring out the contrast. It still retains enough corrosive quality to etch your steel blades. Don't mess with muriatic acid! (Add the acid to the water, not water to acid, for safety reasons.) There are two ways (at least) to do Raindrop that are much easier than doing a mosaic of jellyroll, one for use with a hydraulic press and one for use if you don't have a press. Buy NANFANG BROTHERS Damascus Kitchen Knife Set, 14 Pieces Japanese Knife Set Kitchen Knife Set with Block Wooden, 67 Layers VG10 Damascus Steel Chef Knife Set with Sharpener, Sharp Blades at Amazon UK. For example, steel can be etched with hydrochloric acid, nitric acid, or sulfuric acid. It needs to be heated on a hot plate or in a crock pot first. Remove the Damascus from the acid and dip it in a bath of baking soda and distilled water to neutralize the acid. Your email address will not be published. You can use some 2000 grit sandpaper at this stage to very lightly sand it to bring out the shine on the shiny steel. As with all chemicals, make sure you are wearing the appropriate protective clothing and gear. Can you etch Damascus steel with muriatic acid? Never use tap water, spring water, or filtered water - all will cause problems etc. Bubbling air through it hastens the re-oxidation. In terms of polish: I go to 220 grit on a random orbit sander (the regular electric kind you get from Lowes or Home Depot). Yes. interesting, what's the science behind that? You can remove efflorescence and etch a masonry surface in one shot: Apply a 1:10 dilution of muriatic acid to water, let sit for a few minutes until you see the efflorescence lifting, then. View all products of Market Price & Insight. Mix two-parts of diluted hydrogen peroxide with one-part muriatic acid. Advice? Don't touch it with your hands. After heat treating, bring your Damascus to a 400 to 600 grit finish. Can you etch Damascus steel with muriatic acid? Will this stuff like sit in a jar without eating the jar? Etching Damascus steel is usually to bring out the contrast between the layers; if that's not what you want, you might be better off with a mechanical etch that ignores the layers. Brush or spray the acid solution on the concrete, wait eight to 10 minutes, then neutralize the acid by spraying. For etching, you'll find a confusing array of products, including standard muriatic acid as well as products such as Klean-Strip Green Muriatic Acid ($7.84 per gallon at Home Depot) and. Fast-acting formula, safely use on interior and exterior applications. These bridges or buildings aroun, Make sure to wear regular gear when working with acids. Put on the goggles and vinyl gloves before mixing the chemicals. placeholder="Leave a comment" onpropertychange="this.style.height=this.scrollHeight + 'px'" oninput="this.style.height=this.scrollHeight + 'px'">. Etching is used to make circuit boards, where a thin copper sheet is selectively dissolved away to form a path for electricity. As a major metal product on the market, strong power in Damascus is directly related to its quality. I dont own any Damascus and this is my first, so is that normal? You can also make it, by adding Fe to HCl. You must log in or register to reply here. Possible acids include muriatic (hydrochloric) acid (HCL), nitric acid (HNO3), or . Etching a stainless damascus steel knife (or any damascus) is not as complicated as many people tend to believe. In Las Vegas Nevada, these workers learned their skills from the master himself, Rob Thomas before leaving the field. . There are lots of ways and if they work they are correct. Wait for the acid to react with the slab surface. You will also need to wash a baking bar. A Pocket Sundial From a Broken Pocket Watch! The iron will start reacting with the acid to produce hydrogen gas and ferrous chloride. Make sure the blade is clean and free of oil and grease before continuing. Hydrochloric acid has a normal pH of 1.5 to 3.5, while muriatic acid has a pH of about 1 to 2. 3 years ago Box 71092Springfield, OR 97475. These products combine 50% of 50% of controversial rows in metal Damascus. There are significant risks to health and body including maiming and even death. Erik takes the lead with this video because it's his specialty, he shows how to clean the blades, prepare them for etching, etch them, neutralize them, polish after etching, and a lot of other little tricks in between. Ferric Acid will result in a double grey pattern (dark and light grey pattern) on either a matte or polished finish. What kind of acid do you use to etch Damascus steel? In the video linked above, YouTuber TheSmokinApe acid-etches an ESEE blade with Frenchs mustard. It can also be used to remove soot from firebricks. Do not buff before etching! KMT 106 - Etching Damasteel knife blades with muriatic acid JohnGrimsmo 76.1K subscribers Subscribe 126K views 7 years ago Damasteel is a powdered metallurgy stainless damascus steel. Thank you Kevin. Making stuff, hunting, rock climbing, philosophy, general adventure seeker. A standard strength for a careful etch on copper is 42 baume, above this and the ferric will etch more slowly as the solution is viscous. Answer I've been there before.. This chemical solution needs to be heated to a temperature of between 160-185F (71-85C) in order to properly etch the metal. Report. Your email address will not be published. Neutralize the acid and Lightly sand the oxides off with scotch bright or 2000/3000 grit sand paper and re etch (don't touch it with your fingers). You can order it off of Amazon, believe it or not. If this is the first time youre using this batch of solution (and I presume it is), itll etch super-fast. Ken Fong It will certainly freeze being significantly water. If the reaction is proceeding too slowly for your liking you can heat up the mixture. 1. Does muriatic acid etch metal? Etching Damascus is a fairly straight forward process that can enhance the appearance of a Damascus blade. 03-25-2007, 09:56 PM. This is for academic purposes only and should not be considered in any way a thorough instruction on this subject. The muriatic is available at big box home improvement stores or pool supply stores. Keep it submerged for 10 to 15 minutes. That is why I recommended you dilute the HCl way down with water, Michael. Muriatic Acid will give a mirror/frosted finish on a polished finish and a lighter grey/grey pattern on a matte finish. Etching is done after all heat treatment is completed. So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. Other, safer products are available for etching concrete and should be used . I just etched my first Damascus blade. How do I heat-treat my stainless Damascus after purchase? No matter how effective it is. Edit* I just realized folks already gave this answer. So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. A flask of cold water on top is useful to reduce evaporative losses. As soon as you're done, oil it. I use a fish tank bubbler in my acid tank to agitate the acid. You can repeat 5 and 6 steps for a deep etch if you wish. You can also use Windex with this step, but do not try to break your piece. Ferric Chloride is an iron "salt" of HCl that is nonetheless very acidic, though not as "strong" as HCl. Generally speaking, you want to be at about a 400 grit finish or better to get an even etch across the pattern. Some manufacturers like to roll and cut the pieces into the WD-40 to get the darkest difference. i can't wait to mess with it. 2 Remove any burrs on the edges of the steel. Ferric Acid will result in a double grey pattern (dark and light grey pattern) on either a matte or polished finish. Makes the material look like carbon steel Damascus. Even polishing hard will remove the pattern. Forseti Steel is a fairly new company that imports what appear to be high quality, handmade knives from Pakistan. It is a straightforward process, which is used to enhance the appearance of the blade and bring the inherent pattern, lying in wait within the steel, to life. Take a high-layer bar and press it between dies that have been drilled full of almost-touching holes, then grind the resulting bumps off. Avoid using acetone items because they leave the remainder then disturb the etch, and do not touch the sterile with your hands. Then I remembered I'd been thinking of switching to re-usable etchant, created on the bench using muriatic acid (the store name for hydrochloric acid, HCl, used for cleaning swimming pools). Coffee Etching Damascus Steel | Knife Making How To/Tip Coffee Etching Damascus Steel | Knife Making How To/Tip Watch on Can you use muriatic acid to etch a knife? Place your board to be etched in your new solution and watch it go! Copper can be etched with ferric chloride mixed in water to form weak hydrochloric acid. Everything you need to know about ChatGPT. It's often used in swimming pools to lower the pH of the water. Nitric Acid - mixture of 5 - 10% nitric acid with the balance being alcohol. In masonry work, etching is a way to chemically clean and prepare masonry for repair or painting. From his going on, they have respected their way of access, guided their response, expanded their product line and re-evaluated their unique iDascation process. In a large nonmetallic bowl or container, mix 1 part hydrochloric acid with 2 parts hydrogen peroxide. The strength of the acid generally determines how quickly the steel will be etched, the stronger the acid, the faster the process. Radio Shack sells it online as PCB Etchant. Congratulations on your progress. Dont touch it with your hands. Play both the process and the sandpaper to see what you like. Any help would be greatly appreciated thanks guys. The pattern should be looking good. Coffee Etching Damascus Steel | Knife Making How To/Tip. Acid Etch: Disassemble your knife, and thoroughly clean and dry the part you're going to etch (blade, handle, or clip). 3 years ago. [save-account-details-nonce] => Following. The generally accepted shelf life of ferric chloride solution is approximately six months. If youre using ferric chloride, dilute your acid with distilled water. All you have to do is add a scrap piece of iron or steel to the muriatic acid (or hydrochloric acid; same thing) and wait for it to dissolve. How do I heat-treat 3V/CPM-154 Damascus billet? Ive etched a couple of blades using lemon + lime juice and varying dilutions of vinegar. Acid is generally mixed at a ratio of 3 parts water to 1 part acid for sufficient strength to etch properly. 100% biodegradable, safe, non-acid based cleaner. Our first Etching Damasteel video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inzrn7kL-2UHere is more information about Damasteel and where to order it from. Yet another reason to prefer ferric chloride. Posts: 199. Toch in Damascus, it should be completely clean. It is an ultra high carbon steel that achieved liquid state which should, theoretically, allow you to get a homogeneous steel product with equal carbon distribution and no slag inclusions at all. 8. Muriatic acid is diluted hydrochloric acid; it should be handled with extreme care. It is commonly used to etch steel and stainless steel parts, but it is also capable of etching copper. Bring your Damascus at the end of grit 400 to 600. Damascus's iron is highly respected by its patterns like waves. Ive started working on damascus recently, and I know that ferric chloride is the way to go for etchant, but until I can get some I've been using vinegar just to get an idea of my patterns and such. Dilute it about 4:1 water to acid. My problem here is that I've had some really inconsistent results with the vinegar.