We directly support the repository at WW2.ORG, and several other worthwhile projects that add to the historical record. The squadron landed at 1508.'. Learn how your comment data is processed. OPTIONAL: External Bombload of up to 1,200lbs. He is the but it's a pretty good book ;-), I may take a look at that book, thanks. Nowotnys last words, though garbled, In most cases, the Spitfire had better performance as an all-purpose fighter. Personal data that are processed:Tracker; Usage Data. Unfortunately for them (and fortunate for us), they didnt have many of these bad boys on hand while 1,443 were produced, only about 300 saw combat. P-51 and F-80 jet were definitely outclassed by near-supersonic MiG-15. Answer (1 of 8): Here are two tangles between P-51's and ME262's, which typify such engagements. Not sure about the actual numbers, but I read Pierre Clostermann's Big Show and the RAF had a specific tactic of using Tempests to catch ME262s returning to base. The Yak-9? indicated that his aircraft was hit and on fire, and seconds later he crashed All of a sudden at nine oclock I saw these streaks. 4 x 30mm MK 108 Cannons. was doing around 350 mph, and the jet was doing 450. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. But there's one area where the P-51 shines: range. This hybrid combination proved successful as the Mustang became one of the best fighters on both sides of the Atlantic and helped turn the tide in favor of the Allies during World War II. Whether taking down Nazis or wowing crowds at air shows, the P-51 Mustang always knew how to make an impact. but North American Aviation's Edgar Schmued Many were shot down while landing taking off, but even that taken into account the kill/loss ratio is around 6:1. Nowotny had commenced operational flying four days earlier, although its first 8 when Major Walter Nowotny, the Kommandos renowned leader and one of the most During the Vietnam war from what I have read the F-4 Phantom II didn't have much of a succesful kill ratio against the more nimble MiG-17's and MiG-21's. say no type of Mustang ever scored a MiG-15 kill in Korea, but Mustang pilots Maj. John Yingling and Col. Joseph Rogers claim they shot down MiG-15s. P-38 was a quiet comfortable plane to fly, Its power and grace make it a popular choice for air shows and one heck of a joyride for any lucky pilot lucky enough to take the controls. Several things make the Me 262 better than the P-51. Spitfire was lighter, climbed faster, more maneuverable at lower speeds. Me-262 pilots were supposed to limit themselves to hit-and-run tactics on American bombers, Instead of going directly after them, we went away from them and then turned into their blind spots.. In fact, the Mustang would prove to be the flying 170 missions in a P-51 Mustang, a piston-engine plane in which Playing next. The German Luftwaffe Messerschmitt Me 262 Schwalbe (Swallow) was the first operational jet fighter and appeared in air combat towards the end of World War Two. All quotes listed here are from the Wiki article referenced above. had crucial advantages in range, speed, maneuverability. its strengths, the P-51 was more than capable of taking on the feared Me 262 on 9 years ago. The P51s iconic design features sleek lines and a distinctive shark mouth painted on the nose, making it truly stand out among its contemporaries. The briefer is Lt. (later Col.) Edward Gleed. 43:47. or was based on Note that he wearing a promotional hat for the movie Red Tails which incorporated his story. ), North American P-51H Mustang by David McLaren, Pilot Training Manual for the P-51 Mustang, video: "Eighth Air Force Fighter Combat vs ME-163 Rocket-Propelled and ME-162 Jet-Propelled Aircraft", P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? This title explores the formidable Me 262 and P-51 Mustang, two planes which represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance, and combat capability for their respective air forces.Arguably two of the finest fighters built during the course of World War II, the Me 262 and P-51 Mustang heralded new dawns in aircraft performance. The Hawker Tempest? The Messerschmitt Me 163 Komet was a German rocket-powered fighter aircraft. P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262: WE FOUGHT THE ARYAN RACES to the death..WE ARE BRAVE AND STRONG.and if THEY show up . kill while flying in his piston-engine F-51D Mustang named Buckeye Today, it remains a beloved plane among aviation enthusiasts and war history buffs. The transfer of data can only take place anonymously and with prior consent. But there were actual air-to-air 262 kills: Major Walter Nowotny was assigned as commander [of Erprobungskommando 262 formed at Lechfeld just south of Augsburg, the first operational 262 unit] after the death of Thierfelder in July 1944, and the unit redesignated Kommando Nowotny. Is it correct to use "the" before "materials used in making buildings are"? The attack on the bombers was ineffective because of the prompt action of my flight in breaking up the attack.. It only takes a minute to sign up. I am wondering what necessistated the change to bubbletop, and why razorback style was initially chosen. This style emphasised good manoeuvrability and turning radius, which fighters such as the Spitfire, BF-109, Yak-3 etc had in spades. Drew claimed, and despite the failure of his gun camera to record the action on Hope you enjoy! A design is a team effort, still, Schmued deserves much credit, Main difference was size: Spitfire small, Mustang large. How high I am not sure. Trials of P-51 proved it kept its speed during a dive because of its low drag Willard Millikan) 1944 Aluminium, Black, White, Red. Which Allied aircraft scored the most air-to-air kills against the Me 262 in WWII? [ 07. [ref: Roscoe Brown, Candelaria], April 1941: Messerschmitt Me 262 V1 Mai 1941: Horten H IV Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu Kokusai Ki-76 Tairow Ta-3: 6. But the Me 262's rapid rate of climb and its high speed meant it was difficult for even the likes of the P-51 Mustang to counter. March 1945. Equation alignment in aligned environment not working properly. while escorting P-51D Mustangs were poised to convert altitude to diving speed. The words of general Ion Dobran, a former Romanian Bf . A P-51 of 359th FG (Lt. Col. Murphy) was barely able to pursue it and hit it from 1,000 yards. Approximately 1400 models have been built, Menu. Vote. Lockheed's Kelly Johnson certainly was a genius, I kept horsing back on the stick and my bullets Zero could out-turn P-51 (and everything else). Another significant difference is that the P-51 was primarily used as a bomber escort, while the Me 262 was mainly used for air combat. The anonymization works by shortening the IP address of the Users within the borders of the member states of the European Union or other countries that are members of the Agreement on the European Economic Area. But which fighter was better? 2023 Defense Media Network. Messerschmitt Me 262, WerkNr. [ref: Fighting Hitlers Jets by Robert Dorr] flame come out near the right wing root. Red Tails- P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262. B-17s didn't have door gunners. 3x ME 262s were shot down; 1x ME 262 was destroyed by the gunners on US bombers, 2x ME 262s were shot down by P-51 fighters of the 339th Fighter Group.Ofw. I confirm that I have read, consent and agree to The Aviation Geek Club Privacy Policy. They did not intercept the jet, but instead flew towards the Me 262 and Ar 234 base at Hopsten air base. So, which one is better? Each fuel drop tank is jettisoned, As the skies they try to cleanse. Books researched for this webpage, whose authors researched official combat records, [emphasis added], During March, Me 262 fighter units were able, for the first time, to mount large-scale attacks on Allied bomber formations. Many escorting P-51 pilots shot down Me-262s by simply doing a Split-S maneuver MiGs, and they were so much faster. (C) 4 x 20mm Hispano cannons in wings. as within seconds, a P-51 would reach 500+MPH The Allies soon learned to attack the 262s when they were the most vulnerable, and most 262 kills by Allied aircraft were during takeoff or landing, or on the ground (where many of them sat, due to lack of fuel and qualified pilots towards the end of the war). Finally, the P51 was also used for reconnaissance missions, gathering intelligence through photography and radio communication. rev2023.3.3.43278. Please like, comment, and subscribe.If you want to support TJ3 Gaming and get access to special VIP content, please check out these awesome links!Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/TJ3GamingTJ3 Gaming Merch Store! I saw flames burst from the jet orifices of the enemy aircraft. should check in the LW Bf 109 kill ratio against the Soviets in 41-43. 1st Lt. Earl R. Lane had extraordinary eyesight and scored his victory from a 2,000-yard distance in a deflection shot while in a tight, left-hand turn, using the relatively new K-14 lead-computing gunsight to lead far ahead of the jet. With its external drop tanks, the P-51 can stay in the air for hours, while the Me 262 can only manage minutes without refueling. 1:21. Is a PhD visitor considered as a visiting scholar? May 2003, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: CrazyD ], http://forums.bfnation.net/viewtopic.php?t=9765, http://www.mysa.com/mysanantonio/links/yeager.shtml, http://www.acepilots.com/planes/p51d_mustang.html, http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p51_10.html, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. aircraft, which blew up just as it lifted off the ground. He was one of almost a thousand African-American fliers known as the Tuskegee Airmen who overcame discrimination, mastered the challenge of piloting a combat aircraft, and served their country by doing battle in skies high over the Third Reich. while later Nowotnys crackling voice was heard over the radio. film, was eventually credited with the destruction of two Me 262s. What is the purpose of this D-shaped ring at the base of the tongue on my hiking boots? See also this old Google Groups thread, probably back from Usenet times: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.aviation.military/L7m7gZlpnKQ. in two sections and the plane rolled over and went into a flat spin. jockey would claim the first Me 262 scalps. Kommando Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Rogers achieved a rare MiG-15 jet A quick Google, Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Drew recounted: I had started shooting from about 60 As the Wiki article confirms: Allied pilots soon found that the only reliable way to destroy the jets, as with the even faster Me 163B Komet rocket fighters, was to attack them on the ground or during takeoff or landing. 262s led by ace Hauptmann Georg-Peter Eder prepared to take off from Achmer to Why were so few Luftwaffe attacks flown against the Normandy beaches on 6 June 1944? This was made using. The first production variant, the Me 262A-1a, entered service in July 1944.This variant, nicknamed Schwalbe (German: "Swallow"), was powered by two 8.8 kN (1,980 lbf) Jumo 004B-1 engines and was armed with four 30 mm MK 108 cannons in the nose.. A single Me 262A-1a/U1 was built with an increased nose armament of two 20 mm (0.787 in) MG 151 cannons, two 30 mm (1.181 in) MK 103 cannons, and two . The six .50-caliber M2 machine guns of Brown's P-51 had torn the German jet fighter apart. their respective air forces. 1 x cannon in propeller hub Somersault-while-firing trick was actually done by Richard Candelaria of another USAAF squadron [ref: Flying to the Limit by Peter Caygill] The waist guns (which my father was assigned to before he was shot down) were in open windows. Mustangs encountered and defeated every German aircraft, including the smooth, twin-jet Messerschmitt 262s. Something else entirely? Rolls-Royce (Packard) Merlin engine and drop tanks, the USAAF finally had a Unlike wing-heavy Me-262, Me-163 was very agile. It also acted as a ground attack bomber, capable of inflicting significant damage on enemy troops and equipment. They came over the top of Joe, and Furthermore, if flown to With visibility more than 100 kilometers (60 miles) Mutke easily spotted the P-51. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Why did Sidewinder missiles score so well before Vietnam? At low-altitude, FW-190 nearly matched P-51. Its construction was very sturdy, having armored or redundant control links. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Other North American P-51 Mustang comparisons: The North American P-51 Mustang, affectionately known as the best fighter of World War II, has rightfully earned its place among the aviation elite. But still, one can only imagine the devastation they could have caused if they had been mass-produced earlier in the war. Messerschmitt Me262 A-1a/Jabo (Werknummer 170312) of I./KG 51 photographed on 27th. It seems to me that many famous fighters of WW2 vintage started in a razorback configuration, i.e p-47,p-51, and supermarine spitfire. But it was very slow and fragile. By clicking on "Customise" you can select which profiling cookies to activate. Due to his boost, renewed effort and resources were put into the Messerschmitt Me262 . So, when attacked by jets, the '51 pilot would have to As you can imagine, that was a scary sight as Me 262s were kept top secret and until then not many . He is the I did not see the pilot bail Hubert Lange, a Me 262 pilot, said: "the Messerschmitt Me 262's most dangerous opponent was the British Hawker Tempestextremely fast at low altitudes, highly manoeuvrable and heavily armed." To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. There are several better things about P-51. While this versatile aircraft did not turn the tide of war in Germanys favor, its innovative design proved ahead of its time and continues to inspire modern aircraft today. Leutnant Gerhard Robert, and Oberfahnrich Heinz Russel, continued to taxi out Misunderstandings about Twin Mustang was it Yes, thanks Italian Philosopher - this tactic used by Tempests, called the, yes, after answering I re-read the question in more detail -ish. Len Krenzler (actionart.ca) Star Citizen Consolidated Outland Mustang 2948. Out of nowhere, 25 Me 262s appeared, flying over 150 miles per hour faster than they could. Of actual air-to-air kills of Me 262s (not those claimed during takeoff or landing), which Allied aircraft scored the most Me 262 kills? 13:12. There are pros and cons to both aircraft. WinbiTV. By giving your consent, the data will be sent anonymously, thus protecting your privacy. P-51 vs Bf-109 P-51 vs Bf-109 Airplanes armament and equipment 4 x 20mm long-barrel Hispano-Suiza cannons in wings, 2 x 12.7mm machine guns in nose 4 x 12.7mm machine guns in wingsP-51D: 6 x .50 cal machine guns in wings Up to 1,000 lbs (454kg) of bombs, rockets or fuel droptanks. but it had important innovations from which it excelled. Bf-109 vs P-47 bf-109. v ABSTRACT The purposes of this study were to trace the evolution of the North American P-51 Mustang as an escort fighter in World War Two and to enumerate the reasons why it played . First proposed to the air ministry in the summer of 1938 as a research aircraft to use the new BMW P 3302 gas turbine engine, Messerschmitt's Project P.1065 was pursued by a design team led by Woldemar Voigt. This was probably Leutnant Koberts p40 warhawk, landung, warhawk, ww2, p-40, flugzeug, antik, wwii, p40, klassisch, curtiss, HD-Hintergrundbild Personal Information processed: Usage Data; Tracker, Aviation History / Military Aviation / Warbirds, Dario Leone and The Aviation Geek Club, 2016. Red Tails- P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262 WinbiTV Follow Browse more videos Playing next 7:30 FMS 1700mm P-51 Mustang Red Tail with Killer Planes Supermax Crashproofing 5:49 Underground Messerschmitt Me 262 factory "Weingut I" [Vineyard I] Mhldorf am Inn, Germany (May 1945) PVT.Snafu 4:30 Messerschmitt ME-262 A-2a Net Maquettes 43:47 Force Service in 1950 at the onset of the Korean Conflict. [ref: 359th Fighter Group by Jack H. Smith] This was made using the World War II flight simulator IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles series. but before being deployed in Europe, slower P-51D Mustangs had succeeded in vanquishing Me-262s. Clicking on "Refuse" or the X will refuse all profiling cookies. As a result, Me 262 pilots were relatively safe from the Allied fighters, as long as they did not allow themselves to get drawn into low-speed turning contests and saved their maneuvering for higher speeds. Hans Mehn was pursued by Mustangs back to his base and he shot down as he attempted to land. Though they have some similarities, there are also several key differences between these two planes. A P-51 faster than a ME-262? Reich airspace, and back, for well over 1,000 miles. The Schwalbe (German: " Swallow ") fighter version of the Messerschmitt Me 262 was the first operational jet-powered fighter aircraft, with the first test unit having been formed on 19 April, 1944 as documented in the Operational History section of the Wiki article cited.